On 03/28/2017 10:35 PM, Yusuf Satar wrote:
> Hello,
> On 03/28/2017 12:02 PM, Ish Sookun wrote:
>> Both of these groups are pretty welcoming. Instead of criticizing from
>> outside why not contribute your ideas into making either LUGM or MSCC
>> better? Critics are good for development. Everybody is putting time into
>> something based on their belief of doing the right thing with the right
>> method. I am not questioning the methods since that is not the priority
>> for the moment
>
> This is wrong on so many levels.
Yes, critics are good for development. It allows one to reflect, rethink
and maybe repair. At the same time knowing you, you're better than
someone who'll only criticize. I know you value principles and that my
friend is something which could help local user groups to bring the
change you want to see.
>
> MSCC is welcoming. Agile Media Ltd? Most people did not know of its existence.
> But again, none of my business. Private Company.
>
Your reaction sounds like; Agile Media Ltd, what's that? But before an
answer is put forth you say "none of my business".
I know about Agile Media as it was a topic of discussion during previous
Code & Coffee sessions. I don't specifically recall which ones though.
Then I thought I might have it recorded somewhere in my blog. It appears
that Agile Media Ltd was mentioned during the keynote of Developers
Conference 2016 too (
https://hacklog.mu/developers-conference-2016-day-1).
>
> I am not criticizing, I am denouncing potentially shady behavior.
>
Okay.
>
> "doing the right thing with the right method" vs "I am not questioning the methods since that is not the priority for the moment" : self-contradictory
> I am questioning the methods. Fundamental liberties are a priority at all times.
>
I specifically used the word "belief". I've been involved in running a
private company and I've also been involved in at least one registered
association. If you ask me which one is simpler to manage I'd say a
private company. If Jochen thinks it is easier to manage MSCC and the
finance of Developers Conference through a private company, it could be
his belief based on his experience. I look at it that way.
I said questioning the method is not the priority for the moment because
of the few days remaining before Developers Conference. I am not a
regular contributor to the MSCC. Others have spent more time than me in
the making of Developers Conference. Some of the contributors to the
MSCC are not unknown to me. I would prefer discuss my opinion on the
data sharing part with them after the event. That is my choice.
> « If you don't stick to your values when they're being tested, they're not values: they're hobbies. »
>
I respect your principles.
>
> 1. I believe there is a lack of ethics that a private company is collecting information to be sold to third-parties. Especially since there is no
> information whatsoever on Agile Media Ltd. Rather everything is being done under the guise of MSCC.
>
Speaking for myself, I am aware that registering for the Developers
Conference I consent that the information I provided therein could be
shared with the sponsors. I chose to share my information with them. I
feel like the "sharing of information provided during registration with
sponsors" is being extrapolated. But that could be just me thinking.
> 2. There is strong ground to believe that there have been breaches of Data Protection Act
>
I will re-read these and have a look at the DPA to draw an opinion.
> 3. I am appalled that I am the first and only one to notice and raise this issue, whereas hundreds of educated and well-informed IT people have given
> in to the scheme. Many of whom I thought were champions of civil liberties. This will have a major impact on IT culture and services. Companies are
> dangling free carrots and expecting us to yield our liberties; most people will do so happily.
>
I suppose many "free services" on the internet capitalize on users data.
Some are transparent, some are not. An internet user still has the
choice to use or not to use a certain service.
I read this article
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tristanlouis/2013/08/31/how-much-is-a-user-worth.
Would a user stop using Google services after reading the same? You
mentioned the word "liberty". Liberty is about having choice. I would
say here the choice being "to share" or "not to share" data you provide.
I would retain one point though and agree with you that the registration
of Developers Conference has not catered for an attendee who would not
want to share his/her personal details (name, phone number, email
address, sessions attending). Could this be fixed or improved? I cannot
speak for MSCC but I suppose it can be.
> 4. Jochen asked for suggestions, and I gave my opinion. However I cannot make actual proposals without having the real figures of the DevCon (finances
> and statistics), and without being cognizant of the structure of Agile Media Ltd / MSCC (whichever is leading the dance), or being a member of these.
> I am part of the fb groups / meetup page although I have never been an active participant in any activity (other than guest).
> Also, this is another topic of discussion in and of itself. A lot of people are involved in MSCC branded activities (DevCon / meetups) on a voluntary
> basis. I did not originally intend to meddle or probe into those private matters.
> I do thank Jochen for all these details. Such transparency can only lead to better informed decisions.
>
I agree that with the availability of figures it is easier to make
proposals. I also agree that Agile Media/MSCC could have made this
simpler and accessible rather than having to knock the doors of the
registrar. I smell some ego issues but again that's maybe just me thinking.
> 5. I fully respect Jochen, the Agile Media Ltd / MSCC assemblage and the members thereof. Previous DevCons were great. I do believe we are in a
> democracy, they are fully entitled to whatever structure or level of involvement they feel comfortable with (as I am to be part of those or not).
> Their work is challenging, but should they be excused from ethics or rule of law? I tend to think not.
>
I've gone over the Data Protection Act a few times in the past when I
was required too. I'm far from being a Data Protection expert. If I am
not wrong any person having given his personal data for processing may
request that the same be updated or deleted. Again I cannot speak for
MSCC but I do not see why such a request won't be entertained. As for
the data sharing part I am aware that the information which I provided
in that registration form could be shared with sponsors. Should it have
been made clearer? Maybe. However, I am of opinion that people who
registered upon reading that part continued with registration agreeing
to it. I do not know what would the law say about this.
MSCC could have specified the length of retention of data and detailed
it's purpose and who else has access to it. That would be a suggestion
for the future.
Ethics? Yes. It would be better to have a registration that provides
more fine-tuning with whom you agree your data be shared or not shared
at all. But strictly speaking, can I accuse MSCC of "selling" data to
third-parties? Are the sponsors of Developers Conference third-parties
or are they the organizing committee? In my opinion if the data is made
available to "someone" who is not involved in the Developers Conference
at all that would be unethical.
Cheers,
--
Ish Sookun
Received on Tue Mar 28 2017 - 20:07:14 PST