Hi Yusuf,
I'm really enjoying this conversation.
On 27/03/2017 21:32, Yusuf Satar wrote:
> It would be informative to have your estimation on both manpower and finances needed to establish this kind of event environment.
> As it would be if the actual full budget were to be published online, to everybody.
As said, the records are publicly accessible at the Registrar of
Companies. Yes, it's a private company on paper, but anything you're
interested is on request. If you're interested in particular in the
forecast and balance sheet of the Developers Conference. No problem,
I'll be glad to share this with you.
> No speaker is renumerated
> I do believe that since there are no salaries and speaker remuneration, the main cost consists of the location and stickers/pamphlets?
Indeed, the majority of expenses is on the premises. Then some minor
amounts of advertisement material, like stickers, roll up banners and
online advertisement (ie. Facebook).
> Also, I was unaware that meetups had (major) costs involved - is it not a weekly walk-in coffee meetup?
Well, the weekly Code & Coffee sessions are free as we're squatting Vide
e Caffe with a bunch of people.
And for the monthly meetups we're desperately looking for more variety.
Each time, we organise something at Voila Hotel or Flying Dodo it costs
money. Yes, we went to Microsoft offices in Port Louis (generously
offered for free) and in the past we lodged at the Orange Accelerator
(based on the fact that the MSCC brought tenants for them but it's been
closed).
Of course, the main objective is to find free of charge premises. Next
time, we're going to organise a monthly meetup at the Turbine, Moka.
More details will be announced in a couple of weeks. Again, these are
generous offers by the owners of the location.
Any suggestion for other places, like in Vacoas, Quatre Bornes,
Curepipe, Grand Bay, Flacq, Mahebourg, etc. were it will be possible to
organise a monthly meetup for approximately 25-40 people is highly
welcome and much appreciated. We would like to bring IT and the MSCC
community to other places all over the island. And little support from
our craftsmen isn't too much to ask, don't you tink?
> I believe one major meetup was Ghost guy coming, where every one paid for his/her own food?
Yes, this was a regular table booking at Flying Dodo for ~20 pax, and
also free of charge. Not sure whether it was welcome by Flying Dodo as
we occupied the area for quite some time but given that attendees
consumed beverages and food, I assume that it was okay, and we're still
welcome in the future. ;-)
> Is MSCC community and Agile Media Ltd one and same thing? Does Agile Media Ltd actually sponsor meetups?
> Those are questions the members of the company and/or community would need to address.
Agile Media Ltd. is the legal body behind the MSCC (kind of brand/product).
This provides the ability to run a bank account, conduct and receive
payments, do the tax and organise events with advertisement packages
like the Developers Conference, Global Azure Bootcamp, Xamarin Dev Days,
etc. Prior to Agile Media Ltd. the MSCC was legally non-existent,
literally just a loose bunch of people with common interest. We had to
run finances through others.
>> May I ask you how some or all of those suggestions of yours should be implemented?
>> How would you cover those additional expenses?
> Once again, what additional costs?
> I cannot and do not want to dictate that, especially since the organization is a privately registered company.
Again, I cannot follow you.
Please elaborate on how your suggestions should be done without causing
additional cost?
Right now, it seems you're criticising without offering your view on
things with practical alternatives which could be a better option than
the current situation. Well, that's kind of destructive and demotivational.
>> How would you define a preferential rate?
>> Why for students?
>> Only for students?
>> What about interested college pupils?
>> How about free of charge for Mauritians only, and foreigners have to pay?
>> And last, why should we consider this?
>>
>> Right now, the conference is free (as in beer) and therefore easy accessable to anyone.
>> Why would you like to introduce artificial separation of attendees? Two-class system for attendees?
> I was suggesting a way to balance accessibility and need to cover costs, in a legit manner.
Yes, I agree and I'm asking you on what would you base your decision?
How would you classify and justify a "preferential rate for students"
but not for others? Let's get more detailed and concrete please. I'm
listening and I'm interested in your suggestions. I would like to go
deeper and evaluate your ideas.
>> Our main belief (and somehow the success) of the Developers Conference is to provide a platform on regional and international level to anyone - free
> of charge and based on equality.
> A conference needs not be free to be of quality (although it may). It does however need to respect ethics and rule of law.
Agreed, again I'm asking you for input to improve it - while keeping it
free of charge and therefore accessible and affordable to anyone without
artificially created preferential rates -, respecting ethics and rule of
law (which we somehow broke according to your interpretation). Please,
don't just point out flaws but come up with practical solutions.
>> The introduction of an entrance fee for the Developers Conference requires to initiate the dialog with Mauritius Quality Authority (MQA -
> compulsory) and Human Resource Development Council (HRDC - optional). This process is lengthy and involves expenses to be covered.
> How lengthy? Could it take 3 years? This is the 3rd year of the conference, right?
Please, Agile Media Ltd. was founded last year, so we talk about less
than 1 year.
Furthermore, you're a craftsmen in this community, right? Why didn't you
take the lead and come up with something like this: "Hey guys, in order
to evolve the conference we should consider entrance fee. I take care of
approval with MQA and do the paper work of HRDC." - That would be super
helpful, and I'm surely the last person to have something to say against
this.
> Here is how it looks:
> Agile Media Ltd, for the purpose is organizing a 3-day conference.
> Attendance is free subject to submission of personal data, which will be shared with 3rd party sponsors.
> The justification is that the event costs need to be covered, thereby potentially implying that the sharing of data might be a commercial deal.
> The company is privately registered with privately administered funds.
>
> Neither does this sound ethical nor does it look legal.
>
> As much as your noble intentions could be lauded, the simile would be someone inviting people in the back of a van to distribute free candy.
> It seems to be a nice gesture but remains an improper way of doing things.
You're a free man, and it's your choice to agree to this or to stay away.
You do not agree to attend the Developers Conference because of the
registration form, that's okay.
Unfortunately, we are going in circles. I said initially, that
substainable improvements are most welcome. Help us to improve it.
>> And why stop at the Developers Conference? According to your ideas given above, we could and should also apply all those considerations for our
> monthly Meetups, shouldn't we?
>> Or should we just introduce monthly or annual fees - just to be part of a community?
> Read above, do meetups actually cost money? Anyhow, that's up to the community to decide.
> LUGM has a membership fee if I recall correctly (Yes I know they don't do conference, but conference funding itself in the way it seems to do is
> improper, thus this inquiry)
It depends, meetups can be free and can cost money. It all depends on
the particular arrangement.
The LUGM is an association and therefore has to have compulsory
membership fees.
Off-topic but I'm curious: Are you a member of the LUGM? If yes, do you
pay your annual fees?
>> Where should we stop?
> I would suggest within the boundaries of ethics and law.
Okay, then explain yourself a bit more in details. What do you suggest
should be improved.
>> "This is a community for those who care and are proud of what they do. For those developers, regardless how experienced they are, who want to
> improve and master their craft.
> Caring and pride stem from respect of values and principles.
>
>> In my humble opinion, the introduction of an entrance fee would be equal to the decay and fall of the MSCC.
> MSCC community or company?
> Entrance fee necessary? If yes how much? For which costs? A membership adds legitimacy because it enforces transparency.
> Transparency may not be important to the members of the MSCC (community) or Agile Media, which is fine.
> What is not fine is lack of ethics, especially when backed by law.
Frankly, I don't care about the company itself. It was a necessity. It's
a legal body to run a bank account for the MSCC, and handle finances
directly.
Literally, you're saying that the MSCC should be an association. I took
the example of the LUGM into my decision process.
> Once again, I have always held you in high esteem for the previous DevCon events.
> While I may seem overly inquisitive and perhaps annoying, my concerns remain legitimate.
Sure, they are informative and I like this dialog with you. It would be
productive and evolving to come up with concrete suggestions on what to
do to improve it.
Oh, BTW, that passus you're referring to in the registration was already
there last year. Which leads to the question whether you attended in
previous years (I think so), and what has changed since then.
Again, thanks for the criticsm, now let's move on and improve it for the
good of the MSCC and future events within your understanding of ethics
and backed by law. After all, this would be better for all of us, no?
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your concerns and criticsm. Adding
practical advice to it would be productive.
--
Kind regards, Jochen
Founder of Mauritius Software Craftsmanship Community
http://www.meetup.com/MauritiusSoftwareCraftsmanshipCommunity/
Received on Mon Mar 27 2017 - 19:03:55 PST